president plans a visit today. more wildfires with intense heat on the way. hundreds of records already broken. we have a packed show, deputy campaign manager stephanie cutter will be with us e. bob mcdonnell and michele bachmann and rielle hunter to talk about her book. quts ta"starting point" begins now. ♪ >> welcome, everybody, that was viewer request friday, which is jim daf ron joining us by facebook. it's gloria gaynor words, covered by cake. really? >> good job viewers, starting off well. >> i like gloria gaynor too.

a 5-4 decision in the end, it was john roberts, the chief justice appointed by president bush who saved the health care law. senator obama voted against roberts confirmation in 2005. roberts went against his four conservative justices ruling that the individual mandate, which requires people to buy health insurance was a tax, not a penalty that falls under the congressional power to levy taxes. a harsh oped said the remarkable decision upholding the affordable care act is shot through with confusion. the mandate that's really a tax except when it isn't and the government whose powers are limit except when they aren't. one thing is clear, this was a one man show and that man was john roberts. our senior legal analyst jeff toobin joins us now. he was in the courtroom when the decision was announced. was it chaotic?

>> it was the opposite of chaotic, soledad. i've been privileged to cover a lot of news events and i have never been in a room like that, there were not air molecules in that room everyone was poised and waiting. when john roberts announced the decision at 10:06, it was electric. he began by saying that the commerce clause, which we spent so much time talking about, did not give congress the right to support -- to pass the obama care law. and that as i looked at my colleagues in the press area, looked like it, seemed like the case was over and they were going to strike down the law. then he continued and said there is an alternative ground that the government puts forward that the congressional power to tax and as he was talking, it became clear, he was going to say that

the law was -- would be upheld. i happen to be sitting a few steps away from senator orrin hatch. and i saw him brighten at the beginning of roberts remarks and saw his face fall as it became clear that roberts was going to uphold the law. he was stunned. i was stunned. and if anyone comes to you and says they predicted this result, i want to put them on a lie detector because i didn't. it was stunning, shocking and i'm still shaking my head. >> many conversations this morning about why. i read a little snippet. why? some people who say it is a legacy ruling, others who say it is a way for justice roberts to circumvent the -- to be a legislator essentially. what do you think it is? >> i think there are several possibilities, one is that he simply thought it was a tax,

period, what you see is what you get. another possibility is he didn't want the court as an institution to be embroiled in the kind of partisan war fair democrats versus republicans that congress is on the other side of first street. the other possibility is he is also setting things up down the road for more conservative decisions, the version of the commerce clause that he laid out in the decision yesterday gives congress much lesllessleeway th previous versions have. it might be a long term play. all of those are possibilities, but i'm still puzzled over it. >> you and everyone else as well. i'll ask you to stick around as we introduce everyone to our guests. there are lots of aspects. stephanie cutter is going to join us, the obama deputy campaign manager and former aide

to ted kennedy who was a champion of universal health care. a supporter of the health care law, his state voluntarily expanded the medicaid coverage in 1996, sanjay gupta is back, also a practicing neurosurgeon, worked in the white house during the clinton administration. abbi huntsman, will cain is an attorney and gave us a tour through the constitution and columnist of theblaze.com. stephanie, it's a victory, how are you feeling this morning? >> as the president said yesterday, this is a victory for the american people because there are tens of millions of americans already benefitting of this law through cost savings, rebate checks are going out to people across the country. senior citizens are getting discounts on the prescription drugs, parents are able to ensure kids with preexisting conditions can get care they

need or put adult kids on the plans until they are 26. there are real benefits already under this law. >> lots of buts that come with that, we know that congress has already scheduled a repeal vote. >> this is not first time they scheduled a repeal vote. since it passed they've been scheduling repeal votes periodically and fairly often in congress. they keep failing. and i think that now that the supreme court ruled, the american people are going to want us to move on. there's a reason why congress has such a low approval rating, there's not a sense they are getting anything done for the country. i think now that this ruling is done, it's time to move on and focus on things like the economy in washington. jobs proposals sitting in the house of representatives that could mean a million jobs right now and they should focus on that. >> i think it's very incon electrovertable it's a win for the president in short term. the president in congress this is not a tax. we can play clip after clip

saying this is not a tax. they made a promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. and yesterday we learned it was a tax. is that not problematic. >> what john roberts said, we have the power to impose this penalty on people through the taxation clause, it's a penalty. let's talk about who this impacts. most people have private insurance, i'm assuming everybody at this table has private insurance. >> you said it's a penalty. >> yesterday we learned it was a tax. >> let me finish. i'm assuming everybody at this table has private insurance. so this penalty does not apply to us. there are some people who are choosing not go get insurance because they can't afford. the health care law makes it affordable through the largest middle tax cut in history. after receiving this tax cut and putting the law in place, a very small amount of people, according to independent analysis, less than 1% of american people will still choose not to get health insurance. for those people, what we call free riders, what mitt romney

has called free riders, we pay their health care costs so they need to take individual responsibility for they are health care. >> i understand also you like the law very well but i'm thoroughly confused now is your position it's a tax or is it a penalty? >> it's a penalty that if you choose not to get health care and you're imposing a hidden tax on all of us because we pay for your health care, u pay a penalty. >> let's talk a little bit about what happens next. stephanie says everyone know needs to move on and points to the very low numbers of approval for congress. how likely do you think that is? if you listen to anybody on the gop side, moving on is not how i would describe the ten or of the conversation. >> we have to move on. most states have been preparing for this moment, even if other states didn't like it. now the law is settled. so what people really care

about, the rest of this is purely political. the vote in congress is total politics, it's not going anywhere. the senate won't do it, the president won't approve it. frankly i agree with stephanie, they ought to be focusing on things to get people back to work. for those responsible for putting it in place, let's keep going. i would love to see the white house and campaign focus on over the last couple of years, health care costs have been coming down and there are lots of benefits. for all of the folks who want to repeal it, let's make them say, that means they want to get rid of the condition on preexisting conditions and don't want young adults to be covered anymore on their parents policies. there's some real important provisions there that apparently they want to get rid of. >> let's talk about the expansion of medicaid, which is going to be -- was a very confusing element, one of those things that after people talked about the ruling, it became and

there's this. what exactly goes on with that? >> the backdrop is a lot of people would be covered under medicaid, however much money your income was, they'll expand the amount of income and still qualify for medicaid. same thing was done in massachusetts in 2006. in the past they say, look, if you don't do this, you lose your medicaid funding and states did not like that. as you point out, soledad, sort of buried in the ruling yesterday was this stipulation that look, you no longer will lose -- you can opt out of this thing and not lose -- >> with no penalty, essentially. >> what happens pragmatically, there are people stuck now in the middle. tler no longer eligible for federal moneys but may not get state money either. i did some research on massachusetts to give you some scale, there's about 450,000 people who were added who got

health care insurance and 158,000 of them actually did it through the exchange program and 61,000 did it through the expansion of medicaid. about 15% fell into that category in massachusetts to the extent that's a model. that's concerning. >> what goes into a governor's thinking about whether or not to opt in or opt out, especially now if there's no penalty for not opting in and big cost burden, why wouldn't everybody say let's not opt? >> there's a big cost burden either way, but we have to recognize, if we're not putting more people into medicaid, there are going to be accessing health care one way or the other. most likely if they don't have another kind of insurance or coverage, they'll be going to the most expensive place of all, which is the emergency room, which is also not a good outcome. that's one of the most frustrating things about this entire debate. people forget how bad it was before this law was passed.

when i was campaigning for office in 2008, health care was the number one issue, before the president got his bill passed. people were concerned about access and small businesses were concerned about cost. we had real issues. nobody liked the status quo before either. >> that's true and polling supports that. i'll give you the last question, stephanie. when richard, who i made a bet with for a dollar -- >> you lost. >> i lost big time. >> he e-mailed me immediately, you owe me a dollar. so i will agree with jeff toobin, i was stunned. he said and i think that others would say this, that the messaging was very bad around this for the obama white house, the selling of the plan. when you look at the polling, a large number are against -- not an overwhelming number, are against the overhaul and when you break it down into the individual elements, they are overwhelmingly for it which to

me says the messaging has not been great. you now have another opportunity to rye to redo the messages. >> i don't think you redo the messages. a couple of points on the polling, first of all, it's largely split according to party line. to the extent it's not, there's a good portion of the american people who disapprove of the law because they wanted it to go further than it did. and if you ask the question, you may not like the law but you want it repealed. overwhelming majority say no consistently. that's been the way since the law passed. i appreciate richard's comments on how the messaging went wrong, but $200 million in negative ads were running against this law. we saw the impact of that in the run-up to the 2010 elections. >> what do you do differently now? >> most americans are starting to experience this law, whether you can put your college

graduate kid on your health insurance so your kid can get his foot on the ground and start thinking about his career, or if your kid was hey preexisting condition, you don't have to live in fear of your insurance, there's are real things impacting people's lives, most americans want this debate past them, the law to be implemented and have it improved as needed. we're going to continue implementing this law, efficiently and effectively and over time the american people are going to see the benefits and i think move past this political debate. that's what it boils down to. >> i was with you until the move past the political debate then i lost you. nice to have you in person, we appreciate that. coming up, virginia's republican governor bob mcdonnell will join us, his state was one of 26 states that sued the government. let's get to christine romans for the top stories. good morning. >> good morning, soledad. president obama will head to colorado to survey the damage from the wildfires and thank fire crews there, this as the

out of control waldo canyon fire turns deadly. a charred body was discovered in a home outside of colorado springs. a second person is missing. police have arrested two suspected looters who targeted one home evacuated in the fire. to find out how you can help those affected by the fire, go to cnn.com/impact. blistering heat is on the way to the midwest and east coast. temperatures may top 100 degrees in many major cities today, including in st. louis where the national weather service it will be 108 degrees in st. louis. hundreds of records already broken and the heat wave may last well into next week. george zimmerman expected back in court today. he's hoping to convince a judge to grant him a new bond after his first bail was revoked. he admitted to misrepresenting his finances at his first bond hearing. his attorneys say he's not a flight risk and posing no danger

to the community. attorney general eric holder on the wrong side of history this morning. he's the first sitting cabinet member to be cited for contempt of congress. the house voting to hold the attorney general in contempt for failing to turn over documents related to the fast and furious gun running operation. a sting that's linked to the death of a u.s. border agent. more than 100 democrats boycotted the vote and holder called it unnecessary and unwarranted. >> today's vote may make for good political theelter in the minds of some. it is a grace disservice to the american people, they expect and deserve far more. >> coming up at 7:50 eastern, we'll talk with pennsylvania congressman jason altmire, a democrat who voted for the contempt charge. still ahead on "starting point," we'll talk to the man

who argued against the health care law in front of the high court. as i predicted, this is one i got right, along with everybody, that's true. anthony davis, there he is, goes number one in the nba draft. as expected. but the most heart warming moment actually came in the second round with the 33rd pick. we'll show you what happened there. you're watching "starting point." we're back in just a moment.

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welcome back to quts starts "starting point." stocks are surging responding to a brand-new effort to tame europe's krcrisis. they have agreed to a bailout fund without wraking up any debt. convicted sex offender jerry sandusky could end up collecting his full pension from penn state. that's nearly $59,000 a year. the state's pension forfeit tour laws cover 32 separate crimes but felony child molestation is not on the list. the new orleans hornets selecting kentucky big man anthony davis but the most unexpected moment came in round two, chants of usa for bernard james, selected 33rd overall. he's 27 years old, ancient by draft standards, that's because he has already served three tours of duty in the air force

in iraq and afghanistan. gives you goose bumps doesn't it. >> that's what you missed when you went to bed. >> and went to my team. >> always that hope at the end of the tunnel -- mixing metaphors, light at the end of the tunnel. it's friday. let's talk more about the supreme court this morning. the decision to uphold virtually all of president obama's health care law will is far-reaching legal implications. the ruling on the individual mandate could affect future law that's will be passed by congress. the court says it is valid as a tax with the intention of limiting government's authority. and the ruling also says states can't be penalized for refusing join in the expansion. a former clerk for justice clarence thomas joins us this morning, nice to see you and thanks for being with us. i appreciate it. >> good morning.

>> when you heard that the law was upheld and you had argued against the law on behalf of the national federation of independent businesses, what was your reaction? >> well, i was surprised and disappointed, of course, at the result. at the same time, we were gratified that the court made some new law very significantly limiting federal power in two different respects with the commerce clause holding and medicaid. >> about the chief justice who has a reputation of course as a constitutional conservative and yet he was a swing vote, today there have been some -- some of the op-eds have been sometimes vicious, sometimes trying to understand what happened. "wall street journal" said if the chief justice swayed to pressure, politico says it appears the act of the chief justice willing to cast aside

judicial modesty in favor of playing to an audience, the "washington post" why did he do this? he carries two identities. institutionally he's a chief justice sees him self as you neekally entrusted with the court's legitimacy and reputation and stat tour. what do you think is the rationale behind his decision? >> i don't want to speculate about his motives. i will say -- >> everyone else is. >> well, look, he upheld the statute only by turning it into something very different from what congress enacted. what congress enacted was a legal requirement to buy health insurance. and he said that was unconstitutional and saved the statute by turning it into a tax on not having health insurance. and i think the dissent was very persuasive in arguing that regardless of whether or not congress could have passed a

tax, they didn't pass a tax and indeed the president and the congress in selling this act to the american people were crystal clear that they were not intending to raise anybody's taxes. >> but literally verbatim in that answer you just gave, that is the rationale behind people who say it's -- he's acting like an activist, if you will. >> he is acting like an activist in the sense he is reading a statute and i think a very implausible way in order to try to save a statute he's created something that's very different from what congress enacted. congress and the president said this is not a tax. and now for him after they sold it as a mandate for him to say is a tax is pretty unconvincing. >> in fact, mr. katsas, you said this in your initial answer, you thought federal power might have been limited and referenced the opinion limiting the effects of

the commerce clause, the portal through which so much law has been enacted. do you think congress won't be able to pass laws without the constitutionality of the commerce clause? >> it still remains broad but there was a holding by five justices yesterday that the commerce clause does not allow congress to force american citizens to buy unwanted goods and services, health care, broccoli, cars, whatever, that is a holding of the court. going forward congress will not be able to require people to enter into commerce and buy things. it may be greater latitude to tax people, but it won't have the ability to force people to buy goods and services. and that frankly was the major dispute in the case. >> gregory katsas, argued against health care in the

supreme court. thanks for being with us, we appreciate it. still ahead, the health care decision lighting a fire under republicans, mitt romney saying we can repeal it by voting out obama. it's a deadly inferno, a wildfire burning unchecked through hundreds of homes of the rob marciano will update us. he's on the fire line this morning. ♪ uh-huh... uh-huh... uh-huh... ♪ ♪ it kinda makes me miss the days when we ♪ ♪ used to rock the microphone ♪ back when our credit score couldn't get us a micro-loan ♪ ♪ so light it up! ♪ even better than we did before ♪ ♪ yeah prep yourself america we're back for more ♪ ♪ our look is slacker chic and our sound is hardcore ♪ ♪ and we're here to drop a rhyme about free-credit-score ♪ ♪ i'm singing free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ dot-com narrator: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com. and this is what inspires us to create new technology.

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welcome back to "starting point," virginia governor bob mcdonnell will join us in a

moment. first let's get to kris teen romans. an explosive colorado wildfire has turned deadly. a charred body was found in a home destroyed by the waldo canyon fire. police have arrested two suspected looters they say targeted one home evacuated in the fire. later today, president barack obama is visiting colorado to survey damage and thank the responders. rob marciano is live from colorado springs. are the firefighters making any progress this morning? >> reporter: they made progress yesterday and it's a little bit cooler today maybe the weather will cooperate once again. they got 15% containment, that's a lot better than what they had over the weekend. still the damage done, 346 homes burned. this is the moef destructive wildfire in colorado history. residents not allow to go back. some of them will be allowed to go back to see what's left of their homes. the victims of spread out

throughout the city in shelters with friends and family in hotels. the chef who runs the kitchen in our hotel, a victim himself, he had to evacuate. we caught with him and he explained what it was like having to get out. >> the whole mountainside looking up from my house was on fire. and a lot of homes, families that in my neighborhood and people that are my neighbors, their houses with a engulfed in flames. >> reporter: scary thought, he's burying himself in his work. his wife is working as well. they got news last night they were lucky, even though most of the neighborhood was torched, their home and street was left untouched. a sliver of good news there and also a little bit of good news is that they are starting to get somewhat of a handle on this. there's still 20,000 homes threatened and temperatures are going to remain high and threat

for thunderstorms will remain as well making the threat for winds erratic. the most destructive wildfire in colorado history and not the only one burning in the state. >> thanks, rob. breaking news, peter madoff, the brother of convicted ponzi scheme king is arrested this morning. peter madoff expected to plead guilty to his role in the madoff ponzi scheme, the former chief compliance officer of madoff's business. secretary of state hillary clinton is in russia this morning, meeting with the country's foreign minister. the u.s. is trying to narrow its differences with russia, which is opposed regime change in syria. clinton has criticized russia for resupplying the assad government with arms. tomorrow she travels to gene eva

tore emergency talks. settlements with bp and trans diagnose ocean over the deepwater horizon disaster. talks have accelerated in recent weeks and the deals will include billions of dollars in fines and penalties. 11 workers died in the accident that led to the worst ever oil spill in the gulf of mexico. rafael nadal, lost a five set thrilling to lucas ras so. the 100th ranked player playing in his first wimbledon. on the women's side, serena williams barely broke a sweat advancing to the second round. outrageous video you have to see to believe. a youth hockey coach tripping a teen player from the opposing

team. he knocked to kids to the ground, one suffering a broken wrist. now canadian police are looking into possible criminal charges. breaking stereo type of the civilized world of hockey. >> the first time i saw that, no one would ever trip a kid, it must be he like as he's walking past, he bumped into him. play that again. look at that. >> that's a clothesline. >> unbelievable. >> he literally takes him out and the kid has to be 10 years old or something. >> broke his wrist. >> i'll bet you could get criminal charges. >> that video is now viral so -- >> will cain, you're an attorney, should the parents sue? >> is it a tax or -- >> we need a tax or penalty on this, i don't care what you call it. >> that's terrible. let's turn and talk about the president's het health care law, it is constitutional but the future is uncertain. the president said it is a victory for americans but john

boehner has scheduled a vote already to repeal the affordable care act scheduled for july 11th. if the repeal fails, mitt romney is making a campaign promise to get rid of the law himself. here's what he's saying. >> what the court did not do on the last day in session, i will do on my first day if elected president of the united states. that is i will act to repeal obama care. >> that statement seems to have energized conservatives. the romney campaign raised $3.2 million as of 9:00 eastern last night. that was just in the window when the court's decision was announced at 9:00 p.m. governor bob mcdonnell of virginia is a campaign surrogate for mitt romney. his state was one of 26 states that sued after the affordable care act was passed. thanks for talking with us. >> hi, soledad. >> what happens now?

governor romney saying in fact if he's elected into office, he's going to be sure to repeal the law. do you worry the american public by then may see we like the law? >> i doubt it, soledad. this has been a very unpopular law since the beginning. most of the polls show about 60% plus of the people oppose this bureaucratic big government mandate on the states and on individuals. i think there's broad agreement that increased access for cost and innovation and health care is good, but doing it in this way, to mandate you must buy an insurance product or now a tax or penalty is not the way it go. i think it's a bad policy. the court didn't say it was a good policy. it said 5-4 it was constitutional under a tax and spend clause analysis of the u.s. constitution, now this $2.2 billion unfunded mandate falls on virginia. i'm hoping it gets repealed in

the upcoming congress with the new president. >> it's looking like the repeal in congress might be a tough one. let's go back to the polling because i think you're wrong on the numbers. if you look at the latest poll, 34% when they asked how people felt about reform, 34% felt that the affordable care act should be repeeled but 43 felt it should be kept with small modifications and 15% left as is. math is not my greatest subject but that's almost 60% are good with the law isn't romney the right person to be discussing taxes and penalties and fines and fees when you look at the state of massachusetts where he did a similar thing with his own plan. listen to him defending that back in 2006, april. >> it's not a tax hike, it's a

fee, it's an assessment of the great majority of employers are assessed this fee right now. >> it's a fee, it's an assessment, it's a tax. as a person who ends up paying for those things, aren't those kind of the same thing? >> well, soledad, i'm going to disagree with your previous comment too. the people the virginia don't want this law. and so we've got some challenges in addressing it. here's what the court said which is ironic that it is a legitimate use of the tax clause, powers of the constitution. ironically in 2009 when president obama was proposing this law he said it's not a tax, it's a penalty. so now they uphold is on exactly the opposite. here's the problem overall is that the unfunded mandates on are crushing. medicaid is growing incredibly fast. this is $2.2 billion on

virginia. here's what the issue is. the court said it's constitutional. it didn't say it was a great idea. mitt romney in massachusetts said that the states could do it, not that the united states congress could mandate that all of the states can do it. it's a very different proposition. yes, mitt romney is the right guy to be able to champion this repeal and president obama will be running on a record that says that he's got the worst unemployment rate in modern history, on a sustained basis, the worst amount of deficit in history and now one of the largest tax increases on the middle class in history. that's a good battle for us to have in november. >> let's talk about the medicaid expansion. if you choose to run again, you would be running for governor in 2014, you have the decision to make, would you opt in or decide your state would not opt? which way are you going to go? >> well, unfortunately i'm a one-term governor, virginia is the only state one term. my job is to do the right thing. i can tell you right now that we

have to choose between a state base on a federally based exchange if this law stays in effect. i hope it will get repealed in a new congress. right now it seems like controlling these exchanges at the state is a better way to go. the federal government hasn't start us with a the federal based xmank is going to look like, it's hard for us governor to make that full determination. we'll take whatever steps are necessary to comply with the law, but at the same time, i hope we get a new president and i hope we can repeal it. this is an intrusion into liberty and bureaucratic mess that really ought to be left to the states. that's mitt romney's position, leave it to the states to decide how to reform the health care system. >> bob mcdonnell, republican from virginia. appreciate it. are you seeing a similar thing in the state of delaware. how about your state? >> governor mcdonnell is a friend of mine and we're going to be together in a couple of

weeks. i want to make that clear. some of his comments here first of all, we've had 27, 28 months of straight job growth in the country, very important for people to focus on. i really think he is fighting yesterday's debate. the law is settled. so let's move on. and so a couple of things, with respect to medicaid, our view is that this is actually going to be a benefit in terms of state budgets because the reimbursement from the federal government is going to be higher than it was. how we look at the expansion, it's something we're going to take a careful look at. as i said earlier, we've got to recognize, people are going to get their health care. if they don't get it through medicaid and primary care physicians and the like, they'll go someplace else that is more expensive. >> we'll continue to talk about this. our top topic today. we'll take a break in a moment. [ female announcer ] the coffee house.

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welcome back. will cain did a stellar job of walking us through the constitution and the commerce clause. before that i never understood the commerce clause. >> i would have paid for that. >> we can figure out a way to make that happen. >> i need a dollar to pay off a bet. >> we talked about the commerce clause and taxing power. while so many people gave attention to the commerce clause it ended up being the taxing power through which chief justice roberts found authority. this didn't come out of left field, it came out of deep center. this was the govern's backup argument, we have the power under the taxing and spending pow power. it took 50 lines of transcript in the oral argument, this concept of taxing power and 21 lines in the reply brief.

chief justice john roberts thought he had a duty to find a constitutional path and we have a quote from the opinion where he quoted, former justice holmes, the rule is settled, as between two possible terpgss of a statute, by one of which he would be unconstitutional and the other valid, our plain duty is to save the act. he he says if walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it is a duck, it is a tax. it is substantively in effect a tax. now the dissent felt very differently. they said you essentially are writing tax law from the bench. to say that the individual mandate merely imposes a tax is not to interpret the statute but to rewrite it. judicial tax writing is particularly troubling. abbiand i were talking, this feels like semantics, here's

whether it's important, whether it's called a tax or penalty under the commerce clause. we treat it differently in three ways. tax are supposed to originate out of the house of representatives. this big originated out of the senate. i don't think that's the last you'll hear of that fact right there. it issizier to re -- easier to repeal a tax. and finally, politically the american public has an instant reaction to taxes and this was sold not as a tax. it went through a political process and many people will have questions about, you didn't tell you it was a tax. what is it, two years ago, three years ago now? and today it is? these are three big issues that continue to linger. >> governor romney said the same thing, called it a penalty. i think he and obama are guilty of that. >> what words you use have different effects. >> to give it context, only 1% of in massachusetts ended up

paying a penalty. to call it a broad sweeping middle class sweep in taxes, is disingenuous. >> do you impose taxes on a small amount of people? taxation supposed to be equal and proportional, now you tax a few certain identified individuals? >> who did not purchase the health care insurance when they cou could. >> sounds like a penalty again. >> this is very interesting, especially to lawyers and folks who follow the supreme court. most americans are saying, where go we go from here? i think the bottom line issue, we'll have to shift the conversation away from all of this to how are we going to make sure there's affordable and quality care out there. the law has a role to play but at the same time we have so much more of a system where providers are paid based on how much procedures they do and tests you take as opposed to how do you -- >> your next re-election campaign, you'll care whether people think you're imposing a

penalty or tax. >> voters also know that absent this, the status quo in terms of how we delivered health care is unacceptable. >> fair enough. >> when you look at polling, the voters overwhelmingly support the government being involved and support having a change in reform. we're going to continue -- guess what? we still have an hour and 10 minutes to keep talking about whether it's a penalty, a fee, an assessment, or a tax. still ahead on "starting point" today, the historic vote in the house. attorney general eric holder cited for contempt of congress. we'll talk to pennsylvania democrat jason ultmyer who broke convention on the vote. the postal service is critical to our economy,

delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer.

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welcome back to "starting

point." attorney general eric holder is calling the vote holding him in contempt of congress politically motivated. the house voted to hold the attorney general in civil and criminal contempt after he failed to turn over some documents they subpoenaed concerning the failed fast and furious program. it's the first time that a sitting attorney general has been held in contempt of congress. the case now will be put in the hands of one of his own employees. but before the vote took place, 108 democrats staged a walkout during yesterday's session. however, breaking from party convention, 17 democrats voted in favor of the criminal charge. 21 democrats supported the civil charge. pennsylvania democratic congressman jason altmire is one of those who voted in favor of both contempt charges. nice to see you. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. good morning. >> why did you vote with the majority of republicans on the contempt charges? >> the fact is that the house has jurisdiction in oversight over these type of investigations. the attorney general was asked to provide information, and he

chose not to provide it. so as a result, i had no other choice but to vote in contempt. >> as a result, many of your democratic colleagues walked out as you well know. what was that moment like, when 100-plus of your colleagues are walking out, and you're staying there sitting? >> that moment was exactly like 2008, when we had a nearly identical vote when president bush was in the white house involving the u.s. attorney scandal, two very high-ranking government officials were held in contempt, and the republicans walked off the floor. so it goes both ways. but i don't like to play those kind of political games. i stayed consistent with the vote i cast in 2008. the documents were not provided. the vote was called. and i had no other choice but to vote in contempt. >> nancy pelosi, who walked out, said this. let's play a little bit. >> what is happening here is shameful. what is happening here is something that we all have an

obligation to speak out against because i'm telling you, as eric holder today, it's anybody else tomorrow, any charge they can drum up. >> many of your colleagues in the past, i'd say, you know, week have come on this show to say that they think the charges against the attorney general are politically motivated. you disagree with that? >> i have no reason to believe that attorney general holder has done anything wrong. i believe he is an honest man. i think the documents are going to show that. the question of the vote yesterday was, did he comply with the house request for documents for an ongoing investigation about a very serious matter, that again i believe he will not be in any way found to be negligent in that. but the fact is, he was asked to provide the documents, and he didn't. the larger investigation is a different story. the vote that we took yesterday was on one very specific issue. did he comply with the house request for documents. clearly, he did not. >> how do you think it ends?

will it all be negotiated out, or does it go to court? >> i don't think it's going to go to court. i don't know how that segment of the investigation is going to end. but let's remember what we're talking about. a federal law enforcement agent was killed because of a program that was initiated several years ago. it was carried across two different presidential administrations. there's a lot to look at. the vote yesterday was only about one segment of those documents. but we have to get to the bottom of what happened with fast and furious. and, again, i have no reason to believe attorney general holder is in any way responsible for that. i just want him to comply with the congressional intent as i wanted president bush to comply with congressional intent in 2008. >> congressman jason altmire joining us this morning. thank you for your time. >> thank you, soledad. still ahead this morning on "starting point," michele bachmann will join us live. she is leading a new charge against the supreme court now that the supreme court has let it stand. and she's been called the other woman.

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welcome back, everybody. our "starting point" this morning, the supreme court rules. the health care law stands. could president obama still end up losing the political war? we'll talk to republican congresswoman michelle balkman and democratic congressman steve israel straight ahead this morning. straight ahead, a deadly colorado wildfire has killed one person and destroyed close to 400 homes. and the threat of more wildfires after this long heat wave is on the way. there are people who are desperate to stay cool with 100

degree temperatures, and hundreds of records already being broken. plus, sex, lies, and a baby to boot. rielle hunter will join us to share her side of the john edwards affair with her new book, "john edwards, our daughter, and me." "starting point" begins right now. ♪ when you give me a sign ♪ that you had me ♪ and you let me know ♪ it won't last always >> you know, those are people who know that i like gospel first thing in the morning. that is mary mary. this is viewer request friday, of course. and it's "in the morning" by mary mary. i met them for the first time the other day and i was able to appropriately gush. they're amazing. let's turn now to talking a little bit more about the supreme court. a new chapter this morning in the debate over your health care after the supreme court upheld president obama's health care

law. the decision was 5-4. lots of aspects to this ruling to get to. so let me introduce you to our guest this morning to help us put it all in context. delaware governor jack markell is a supporter of the law. his state voluntarily expanded their medicare coverage in 2006. dr. sanjay gupta, also a practicing sur practice oohing -- practicing surgeon. will cain, a columnist at theblaze.com. nice to have you all with us. lots to talk about. the health care ruling is leading the republicans to rally their base with promises of repealing the base. take a listen. >> i think today's ruling underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety. >> we can, and we will, repeal obama care.

>> i'm committed to full repeal and replacement with patient centered solutions. >> repeal, repeal, repeal. president obama is trying to get in front of the attacks insisting that the court's decision to uphold the health care law is a victory for american people. >> whatever the politic, today's decision was a victory for people all over this country whose lives will be more secure because of this law and the supreme court's decision to uphold it. >> so the court's ruling may end the legal battle, but the contentious political battle, obviously, is far from over. that brings us to michele bachmann of minnesota and steve israel of new york. congresswoman bachmann, i know you have been one of the most outspoken critics of the law. walk me through how that decision came down and how that went for you. >> well, i was in the supreme court yesterday, soledad, when the supreme court decision came down. and at first, justice roberts read the decision from the bench. and he struck down the commerce

clause and he struck down the necessary and proper argument. so two arguments said that the individual mandate would fail. then he went to the taxing clause. so the courtroom thought that the individual mandate had been struck down. and then on what was perceived as the weakest argument, the taxing clause, the law was upheld. and it was really a shock, i think, that went through the courtroom. but of course the rule in the courtroom is that everyone remain seated and quiet, and everyone in the courtroom did exactly that. but across the country, america was shocked. and people have risen up and said that they are planning to take their voice to the ballot box. the legal challenge is now over. now the option left to the american people is the political one. and that means taking the white house and the senate and the house of representatives. and you had governor mcdonnell on a little earlier. he called on the governors not to implement the current provisions of obama care. senator jim demint and i and representative jim jordan have written a letter.

we have a number of senators and house of representatives on this letter urging the states to not implement obama care before the election because we are very confident that after the election, we will repeal obama care. >> so stay right there for one second, congresswoman. i want to talk to governor markell who is our guest this morning as well. when these calls to go ahead and not implement something that has now been deemed constitutional by the supreme court, what kind of a legal morass would that put a leader of a state or a representative in? >> it doesn't put us in any morass, and i have not seen the congresswoman's letter. but we're going to move full steam ahead. one, because it is the settled law of the land. whether the opponents like it or not. and number two, the fact is that making sure that people with pre-existing conditions can get care, young adults can stay on their parents' policies, is good public policy. and i'm wondering if people who

want to repeal the law want to repeal those proivisions as wel. we have lots of work to do and we'll continue with that work. >> walk me through your letter. who did you send it to and what did you ask for in the letter? >> this letter is urging all of the legislatures and the governors to not implement the health care exchanges. there is no variation within the states. all these are are money collection operations where all of the money is collected and sent to the federal government, as well as a massive data collection as well that goes to the federal government. here's the problem. under current obama care law, if the state doesn't implement the health care exchanges, then the employers don't have to collect all of these obama care fines. so your state is actually a better place to do business if you don't implement these exchanges because this is what hasn't been talked about, soledad. but it's very important. because all across job creator boardrooms today, decisions are being made by millions of employers to drop the employer

covered health insurance. millions of americans will be losing their employer sponsored insurance because of obama care because they can't afford it. so actually millions of people -- millions of jobs are about to move out of the united states. that's why we're telling the states just stop, take a breath, because we're going to turn the economy around after november. >> let me stop you there because there's a lot you've covered and we've got to go back through it. you say millions of people would be dropped potentially, and the idea of the exchanges would be to in fact fill that gap, though, right? so let me turn to sanjay gupta for the medical perspective on this. walk me through what she's saying about the exchanges. she is saying these people would be dropped. those people would go to the exchanges. and she is urging everybody in fact do not create these exchanges. >> i think what she is referring to is the idea that these exchanges basically are the idea that within the states for the time being, and they are still being set up, a lot have not been developed as of yet, would

create a more competitive marketplace for people to buy health care insurance. i think what she was referring to is the idea that employers who say, look, we are providing health care insurance for our employees. it's expensive. we no longer want to do that. we're going to send these people to the exchanges. so the feeling is that are those people being dropped from their current health care programs and forced to go to the exchanges. that's where you get the millions of people number leaving their existing insurance programs. no one knows for sure whether that will happen. and i will tell you in massachusetts, again, the only state that really has an exchange, about 450,000 people became newly insured after health care reform, and about 1/3 through the exchanges. i don't know that there was a mass exodus of people who actually had their employer-based health care program who left that and went to the exchanges. there's no precedent for that necessarily. >> we have had a number of studies that said literally there will be millions of american employers that are dropping the very expensive

mandates because now government will decide what goes in insurance policies and what doesn't. those mandates are very expensive. we saw this year alone health insurance premiums tripled in price. employers will be dropping their insurance. employees will be without insurance. they'll have to go in the private market. i'm a former federal tax lawyer. and one thing that many people don't realize is when they receive their employer-sponsored health care, it's tax free to them. when they are dropped from their employer and have to buy their own insurance, they pay for it with after tax money. very expensive money. so again what we're going to see is the greatest outsourcing of jobs out of the country because the cost of business just went up for employers all across america. they'll be shipping literally unfortunately millions of jobs out of the country. so a dark cloud is over any hope of economic recovery before november. that's why we're saying hold on. because once we change the politics, we'll turn the economy

around after november. >> i am confident that congressman steve israel has lots to get on that. i don't know almost know where to begin. let's talk about the ending, what she said, which is that millions of jobs through her description in fact would be leaving the country because of the exchanges that would not be set up because of employers who would drop millions of people, she claims, from their health care plans. >> well, let me go back to something that michel said. she said that after november, we will turn this economy around. michel michele, where have you been since you took control in january of 2011? this is the problem. instead of working with us to move the economy forward, you have obstructed through excessive partisanship, through every argument that you can find. let's not wait. we cannot afford to wait to deepen and strengthen this recovery. this shouldn't be about a political decision to wait until november. the american people want action now. and quite honestly, you now have

a supreme court decision that validates the constitutional argument that the affordable care act is constitutional. this is not a victory for barack obama. and it's not even a setback for michele bachmann. it is a victory for the middle class that now retains those consumer protections, that will allow their children to stay on their insurance, where no woman ever again can be told that her breast cancer cuts into the profit margins of an insurance company and therefore she can be thrown off that plan. this is a victory for the middle class, the consumer protections are intact. we can bend the cost curve of health costs. and so this is a big victory for the middle class. and it's time to quit the partisan politics, to quit the obstruction, to stop thinking about a political victory in november, and start thinking about the success of the middle class in this country. >> let's talk a little bit, sir, about the politics. the supreme court has ruled it a tax. and when we talked to stephanie cutter earlier, she said really it's a penalty. and i'm sure there will be more iterations of that.

but there's no question, politically, it is a challenge to run on a tax, right? that's hard. >> look, mitt romney when he was governor of massachusetts actually defended what he called a penalty. and not my words, mitt romney's words, were the free riders who chose not to get health insurance but shift those costs onto society needed to pay their fair share. i didn't call them free riders. mitt romney did. look, bottom line here, if you are covered right now, if are you one of the americans who have health insurance, you don't pay anything more. but you have all those consumer protections. however, if you choose not to get health insurance, and you get sick, and go to a hospital emergency room, instead of shifting that cost onto everybody else, you're now required to pay your fair share. i think that's fair. it's good for our economy. and that's one of the central elements of this act. >> soledad, in the house of representatives, we have passed bill after bill after bill, budget after budget after

budget, 20 bills that we have sent over to the senate, and the democrat-controlled senate has done absolutely nothing with them. they haven't passed a budget in over three years. the problem with obstruction has been in the democrat-controlled senate and with president obama. and to go back to the charges by steve israel, there is no fairness for americans who are losing their jobs all across the united states because now the united states has the high -- >> oops. it looks like our satellite just died. so we will see if we can get that re-established. one of the things i think she was going to continue to say was trying to connect people to losing their jobs to jobs being outsourced. >> and may i say on that that michele bachmann and the republicans in congress have voted consistly against democratic amendments to stop subsidizing american companies to take jobs offshore. support our amendment to quit tax breaks for companies that are outsourcing those jobs.

>> there is no greater outsourcer of jobs than president obama. that's exactly what obama care is. you need to talk to the job creators. whether they are large or small business creators. they'll tell you, overwhelmingly, the number one reason why they aren't hiring is because of obama care. now -- >> michele, that's just not true. >> it is absolutely is true. >> that's absolutely not true. i have talked -- >> it is absolutely true. >> hold on one second. one person at a time. >> i talk to business leaders all the time. if they are not hiring, they don't have demand. what they care most about is where do they have access to the greatest work force of the these charges are just ridiculous. >> they aren't ridiculous at all because i talk to business leaders as well. and you need to look at what the chamber of commerce and what they are saying. and business leaders are looking at the cost of business. >> doesn't having a 26-year-old -- >> they just went up dramatically, the costs for business, because of upholding obama care. that's why we are saying without a shadow of a doubt millions of

jobs will now leave america. people's lives aren't better when they lose a job and when they lose their employer-sponsored health care. that's exactly what's going to happen. >> there's an argument that says when they -- congresswoman, there's an argument that says by allowing people, young people, to stay on their parents' insurance until the age of 26 actually improves the job market for them because now business people want to hire those people. it's easier for them. >> well, business -- the 26-year-old mandate is not impacting whether someone hires you for a job. usually there's employer-sponsored health care benefits associated with that job. that's what's changing now overnight. trust me. i'm an employer. i started a successful company. business owners all across the united states are gathering today. they recognize this is a very expensive way to do business with obama care. and you're going to see massive numbers of people dropped from their employer-sponsored care. america changes because of this

bill. >> congresswoman, stop for one second. governor? >> there's plenty of evidence that suggests over the last two years since the bill became law that premiums have not been growing at the same rate they were growing at before. >> that's just not true. they tripled this year alone. >> one at a time, please. i beg of you. go ahead. >> i'm sorry. i just beg to differ with your figures. it's that simple. >> steve israel? >> well, they have tripled this year. health insurance premiums have spiked over 9% this year alone. that's triple what the increase was last year. it's totally devoted to the mandates that are in obama care. >> hold on. let's get sanjay gupta to weigh in on this for me. >> these numbers are pretty clear, congresswoman. they have gone up by about that much. but you can figure out how much of that is due to increase in health care costs, meaning they would have gone up anyways, versus how much is due to increased premiums due to the implementation so far of the affordable care act. of that 90%, only 1% to 2% is actually due to implementation.

so it's hard to rest all of that increase on the provisions of the affordable care act so far. >> but when you have the new man dates that are contained in obama care, they don't come free. >> i'm just saying -- >> they are very expensive. someone has to pay for them. and that's included in the cost of the increase. because the insurance companies -- >> the people who pay for them are the people -- >> the insurance companies know they are the ones that are going to have to pay this money out. so that's why you see the premiums going up. >> you just said t price went up and you said tripled even i think was the number you first used because of what's happened so far with the provisions. that's simply not true. you'd agree with that? >> triple over last year. what the insurance premiums were last year. they have tripled this year and spiked over 9%. >> because of increased health care costs, which would have occurred anyway. it has nothing to do specifically -- >> no. >> you can separate out what was due to the provisions versus -- >> the most important part about health care, that all of us can agree on, the reason why people are having trouble to access

affordable high quality health care is because the increase in costs. if there's anything that obama care has already demonstrated it's that obama care is very expensive. it's increased the cost of health care. when president obama promised our health insurance premiums would drop, $2,500 per household, they have spiked. and we are already seeing the beginning of denial of care. that's the future under obama care. denial of care. and that's -- >> this sounds like the israel family thanksgiving day dinner where i can hardly get a word in. >> i'm not coming to your house ever. >> let me say. this i think that the american people, particularly after the supreme court decision, they want us to move on. now if michele bachmann and the republican caucus are going to relitigate health care and talk about a repeal, and talk about the fact that they want to remove these consumer protections from the american people and the middle class -- >> no. we're going to bring the cost down. >> and inject more partisanship and obstruction into this economy, they do so at their own

peril. i think we have think we have an obligation to find ways to work together and move on. this relentless obsession with doing everything we can to make the president look bad, not worry about jobs for the american people -- >> this isn't about the president. this is about -- >> one at a time, please. >> it has to end. michele, here is my challenge. you have said that you're concerned about outsourcing. join us, the democratic caucus, in ending tax breaks for corporations that are outsourcing jobs. if you're that concerned, maybe this is something where we can work together, and i hope that you'll co-sponsor our bill. >> listen, we have a whole deck of reasons -- of things we can do to make this a better job creation climate in the united states. >> will you do that one thing with us? >> number one, what we can do is we can instead of being the highest taxed nation in the world for job creation we can low are our taxes. but obama care is the biggest tax increase in american history. that's what obama care does.

>> it sounds like she's not going to answer your question, congressman israel, congresswoman bachmann, thank you before with us. >> thank you, soledad. >> thank you for the feisty debate. still ahead this morning, the blog that got the health care ruling first. the founders of scotus will joins later after their busiest day in history. also from the bedroom to the courtroom, rielle hunter will join us. she tells all in her new book. have you read this book? wow. heavy on the details. she's going to join us live straight ahead. you're watching "starting point." [ male announcer ] this is the at&t network. a living, breathing intelligence helping business, do more business. in here, opportunities are created and protected. gonna need more wool! demand is instantly recognized and securely acted on across the company. around the world.

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peter made madoff is under

arrest. in the custody of the fbi this morning. they arrested him this morning. he'll head to federal court at 11:00 a.m. as part of a flea deal. peter madoff is expected to plead guilty to his role in the madoff ponzi scheme. he is the former chief compliance officer at the private investment arm of bernard madoff's business. george zimmerman is expected back in court this morning. he is asking a judge to free him on a new bond after his original $150,000 bail was revoked. zimmerman admitted to misrepresenting his finances at his first bond hearing. zimmerman is being held on murder charges in the trayvon martin death. soledad? thank you very much. when the supreme court's ruling on health care broke, a little known website which is called scotus blog was the first to report that the law had been upheld at 10:07 a.m. the blog's live feed peaked at over 800,000 views during the coverage. tom goldstein and amy howe are scotus blog's co-founders and they are joining me this

morning. nice to see you. you were the first to report the ruling. describe to me when you heard it come in how you felt. were you stunned? confused? what was it? >> we were a little bit surprised actually. the supreme court was supposed to issue two other decisions yesterday. and we thought that they would come down, and we'd have a little bit more time before we got the ruling in the health care case. but they issued the first decision and then a quick one sentence order disposing of the second case. and so all of a sudden, we had news that there was the opinion. and so we were quickly scrambling like everybody else trying to figure out what the court held and what its reasoning was. >> today, there are people who are analyzing why the chief justice roberts did what he did. if you look at the "wall street journal," they say the chief justice capitulated to the pressure, the political pressure they are talking about. it shows the court can be intimidated and swayed from its constitutional duties.

politico says it appears to be the act of a chief justice to castaway duty to play to the audience. many people are assessing what happened. would you agree that what the chief justice did was stunning? and how would you describe the motive behind it, if you could? >> i think our theory is apparently more radical, and that is he actually believed it. that he decided that the law was constitutional, that his job was to uphold a major piece of economic legislation, if he could find a way. he didn't agree with the government's principle theory, but they had the back-up idea that it was a tax, and the congress can basically do whatever it wants under the taxing power. i think that's what is really going on. it makes the supreme court look less partisan and makes it hard to criticize him and will make it hard to criticize him for 10 years in being too overtly conservative in moving the law. so it ends up well for the court and for him. but i think the answer is that he thought that the government was right. >> your website, many people

tell me, is a mainstay. if you're a lawyer, if you're a law student, and now of course a lot of people who are neither lawyers nor law students but really wanted to understand the ruling are suddenly going to scotus blog. you usually i think are around 40,000 hits on your website. and now you're getting something like 3 million. is that right? >> we had nearly 5 million hits yesterday. >> wow. >> and as you said, about 800,000 people following us on a live blog. on a good day, the last month or so when people were tuning in just in case there was a ruling in health care, we'd have maybe 3,000 people on the live blog. so, you know, it was exciting to look down and see the numbers, you know, skyrocketing in the bottom left-hand corner of the software. but, you know, there was also sort of incredible tension not in terms of what the court was going to do or whether we were going to be able to get it right but were we going to crash. and at the point probably shortly after the court's ruling came out, when we realized we were not going to crash, you

could almost feel the tension deflating sort of in the room. >> now all you need is a landmark, you know, decisions every six months to keep you there. >> there you go. >> you guys did an excellent job. and truthfully, you have affirmative action. there are some big supreme court indicat cases coming up for you. >> when my friends were calling me to say, are you looking at scotus blog, i was like, wow, it's now in the zeitgeist. congratulations on your huge success yesterday. >> thanks so much. >> thank you for having us. still ahead on "starting point," the colorado wildfires still growing, turning deadly. is there any relief in sight? we'll take a look. also, rielle hunter will join us live to talk about her new book. she says it sets the record straight about her with john edwards. you're watching "starting point." back in just a moment. [ female announcer ] the coffee house.

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christine romans has a look at the day's top stories. president obama will head to colorado today to survey the damage from the wildfires and to thank the fire crews. this as the out of control waldo canyon fire turns deadly. a charred body was discovered in a home. a second person is still missing. to find out how to help those affected by the wildfires go, to cnn.com/impact. there's also fear more wildfires could spark as a result of a potentially dangerous heat wave in the midwest and east coast. temperatures could top 105 degrees in many cities today. ending the bloodshed in

syria is topic number one for secretary of state hillary clinton in a meeting with her russian counterpart. russia has opposed any regime change in syria. tomorrow, secretary clinton travels to geneva. he faces 400 years in prison for sexually abusing children. but jerry sandusky could still get paid. even if the convicted sex offender gets life in prison, it appears he'll still collect his full pension from penn state. that's almost $59,000 a year. the state's forfeit are you laws cover 22 separate crimes but felony child molestation is not on the list. people scared out of their shoes at madame to you so's in new york city as a wax figure comes to life. watch. the knicks carmelo anthony playing a plank on tourists, standing in as his wax figure. the reactions were priceless. >> hey, hey, hey.

>> hey, man. [ laughter ] >> how are y'all doing? >> that is so funny. thank you for making my day, mr. anthony. >> oh, my gosh. i love that. the guy who thinks like -- that was hysterical. he has a good sense of humor. well, this morning, the right and the left are both aggressively spinning the health care ruling. republicans pushing forward with a recall vote in congress next month, and they are pouring money into their candidates' campaign. mitt romney raised more than $3 million in the hours after the supreme court's decision. democrats are trying to frame the debate, suggesting the ruling is the final word on reform, urging republicans not to revive past political fights. and it's those fights that have turned many people off of politics. those very fights. the latest gallup poll find that just 17% of people approve of the job congress is doing, 79% disapprove. mark penn is the worldwide president and the ceo of a p.r.

firm. he has a new poll that sheds light on americans' views when it comes to health care and the direction of the country. he was also the chief strategist for hillary clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. nice to see you. this poll that you're releasing is absolutely fascinating. i just want to run through some of the things that stick out to me. your new poll shows that seven out of 10 people say they are losing confidence in america and its political system. do you think that this decision maybe by the supreme court has a potential to change that? >> well, i think the system may instill a little bit more confidence. i think that the court will look a little bit less political. i think the country looks a little bit less fractured. in our poll, seven in 10 think that access to health care should be something that the government provides for all americans. and that actually has been growing over the years. so i expect that americans will now take a second look at the obama plan now that the supreme court has said it's ok. >> but the question, will the supreme court be influenced by

politics, 75% peopl ofpeople po said yes. that's depressing, considering that justices have the position for life, right? >> well, i think in this poll, people were pessimistic about the court, pessimistic about their politicians, pessimistic about wall street, and pessimistic about the economy. so the american mood across all of these counts and their values across all of these counts are really in one of the most negative modes they have been in quite some time. >> some good news. when asked the question are you more -- are you more tolerant than their parents, 62% of people said that they thought they were more open to new ideas. 53% said more tolerant to other people's or cultures. at the same time, when there was some really i thought depressing news about the way they felt america is going. >> well, i think if you're looking for some good spots, 70%

thought that they could achieve anything that they wanted to achieve just through hard work. i think you saw a tremendous shift towards tolerance. you saw the tremendous change in acceptance of gay and lesbian lifestyles. you're seeing tremendous acceptance of kind of new lifestyles. generally, and particularly with the younger generation. the older generation that was actually the kennedy generation, actually an increasing distance from younger people in terms of their moral values and younger people seem to be far more tolerant for far more open and far more liberal socially than their older peers. >> mark, it's jack markell. very interesting poll. and i saw one of the things that people think that the values in this country have really deteriorated since the '70s. and i wonder to what extent that is. because it used to be in order to get famous, most people had to do something distinguished or they had to have a talent. these days people do some crazy stuff, they get famous, and then

they turn that into a success in reality tv and everything else. and i'm wondering to what extent you see any kind of linkage there. >> i think there's definitely a linkage. i think that celebrity-obsessed culture was one of the complained about things when we asked people why do you think values have declined. corruption, problems with politics, doubts about the economic system. and the celebrity obsessed culture. too much materialism and money. so they don't like what they see in the lens of america as it's growing up, and they want to change it. and i think that's one of the key findings of the poll. >> the poll is absolutely riveting. thank you for joining us to talk about it, mark penn. coming up next on "starting point," rielle hunter will join us live. in her new book which is called "what really happened: john edwards, our daughter, and me." she reveals lots of details inside that relationship. she is our guest up next. here she is. nice to have you. >> hi. >> welcome. >> "starting point" is back in a moment.

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back in 2008, "the national enquirer" exposed the extramarital affair between john edwards and rielle hunter and the child they had during their relationship. the drama that unfolded was like a soap opera. edwards adamantly denied the affair and that he had fathered his daughter, quinn. and instead he said a campaign aide was the father. eventually, he'd come clean but the damage was done. edwards' political career was over after accusations that he used money, campaign money, to support rielle during the 2008 presidential race. and his marriage to then cancer-stricken elizabeth edwards was broken. rielle hunter is telling her side of the story now. she has a new book called "what really happened: john edwards,

our daughter, and me." nice to have you with us this morning. >> nice to be here. >> when you have been doing this press tour, and i have been watching it on tape or watching it live as it's been happening, people have pummelled you. you're a home wrecker. you've said mean things about elizabeth edwards and hthey repeat those things to you. why write a book that lays out all of this when people feel very strongly to some degree that you're the villain in the story? >> because i believe that people make judgments and assumptions based upon speculation, based on misinformation, and i think that we grow as people if you can see the full truth. you have more of an understanding. and i wanted to do that. >> you write about how truth was really important to you. and it's kind of ironic. and i think you even point out the irony is that, you know, you're all about sort of open and being truthful. and 96% of the book is about hiding and lying and being deceitful in a relationship. how do you sort of keep those

two parts of you together? >> well, i became someone other than who i am, because i fell in love. but ironically enough, i did influence john edwards. he's living a different life now. so i went into this whole other world and compromised who i was, and i'm not interested in doing that anymore. >> can you say what you mean? you influenced john edwards. he is living a different life now. what do you mean by that? >> he is very honest and authentic. >> you think it is because of you? >> it has a lot to do with our relationship. >> do you think there's any chance you can get back together or you will find love down the road? is that something you want? >> yes, i want love. and we have a child together so we will probably work on our relationship. we will work on our relationship whether we get back together or not because we do have a child together. >> there are people who would say you influenced john edwards

but in all the bad ways. that his presidential hopes were dashed and derailed. that his wife who was sick ended up kicking him out of the house. like his entire world was destroyed, ended up culminating in a court case. he's probably fair to say one of the most disliked people at one point. i mean, watching that trial, i think people really, really hated him. and they would say that you affected him in that way. all the bad ways. >> well, it's funny to me that as people we don't really grow unless there's pain. i don't know why that is. but just as humans, we don't. and he's gone through a lot of pain. and a lot of suffering. and it's changed him. >> why did you -- did you feel like you were being reckless in your relationship? when you first met him, you describe a lot in the book how you then bumped into each and other it grew immediately into this intense connection. but a lot of it is also described as reckless. you're not using contraception. you're having sex with a married man. did you feel at the time like this was just reckless? what was it?

>> adventurous is how i would describe it. but, yeah, reckless is another way you could describe it. >> why? i mean, you're both grownups. i'm sort of want to get into the psychology. >> have you ever really been in love? >> i have, yeah. i really have. >> it was just huge. it was -- i -- i don't know. love. i mean, it took over everything. >> you -- what's your relationship like with his kids? because of course your daughter, the daughter that you share, is just a little bit younger than his youngest children by elizabeth. and then he has an older daughter, kate, who went to the courtroom with him every single day. do you get along with them? >> i think that they have a right to their privacy, so i don't want to talk about them. >> ok. >> but they are in the book. >> they are in a book a lot actually. >> what signal does it send to them, that, you know, they have a right to privacy but you wrote this book? >> i wrote the book about the

story because from the beginning of the affair because there was so much information in the public domain already out there in the media, from other people, other sources. so i wrote it from that section of our lives. and i would like to put it to rest and move on and not have -- be writing about the lives after that. but i did want to set the record straight. >> it's kind of contradictory, right? because if you talk about the privacy for them, and you say that really early on, the father had multiple affairs. you talk about it. you call elizabeth, and i know a lot of people have called you on this, you call her terrible things in the book. you're very, very harsh to her. and yet you are trueing to respect their privacy. i think people would say that does not make sense. that's completely contradictory. how do you explain that? it must be hurtful if you're a kid to read this book, i would think. >> i think our parents as adults, my parents did a lot of stupid things and i'd rather know the truth about them than not know the truth.

>> but do you need to write a book for the whole public for them to know the truth? >> for my daughter, i do. >> you couldn't have done this as a letter for your daughter? >> people make judgments because of misinformation. and my daughter goes to school with those people. and those parents have judgments about her mother and those people. and i think she has the right to have it in the public do main, i do, as a mom. >> you give in the acknowledgments, you mention the younger children but you don't mention kate. do you not get along with her? >> i felt like she had a right to her privacy. >> but clear she doesn't because you write a lot about her in the book. >> i don't write about her at all. >> but you write about her brother and sister and her dad. >> well, kate, when asked about me, she says it's a private matter, and i would like to mirror that. >> but she's not writing a book about it. >> wow. and i would like to mirror that back. >> it's interesting to me, you get offended when people ask

questions of things that they think are contradictory. >> no, i'm not offended. the manner in which you're asking them feels a little harsh. >> it does? well, i apologize for the harshness. i guess i'm trying to get a straight answer as things that i see as completely in conflict, which is how do you protect somebody and keep their privacy but write a book that is really detailed about their lives, some element of their lives? >> because that story is -- was not a full story. and in order to have a full look at the truth from that time period, which is very, very public, i needed to put the full story in. i feel like some people are starving for authenticity. some are offended by authenticity. and for the people who are starving for it, you gave that to them. >> do you feel better about yourself now that the book is out? do you feel like something has been relieved from you? >> absolutely. >> even though there's still been a lot of backlash from what you have written about, do you feel like that was the right thing to do?

>> i feel like it was an extremely therapeutic process and a great learning experience, yes. >> has john told you what he thinks of the book? he stars in it. he does. he does. i mean -- or co-stars maybe is a better way to put it. >> what's he think? >> did he help at all? did he have any sort of say? >> he lived this. >> but what does he think of it? >> you'd have to ask him. >> has he told you? >> he has. and you have to ask him. >> so he's told you. that part is private. >> it is. >> everything else that he thinks over the last six years is in this book. >> that's my point. it ends at 2011. and everything else from that point on is not -- is not -- you are not entitled to that one. >> it's an interesting strategy. we wish you luck with the book. it's called "what really happened: john edwards, our daughter, and me." rielle hunter, nice to have you. thank you for talking with us. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we are back in just a moment. stay with us. er is different

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issues. taxes normally originate from the house of representatives. the health care bill originated from the senate. you'll hear more about that. the fact that the tax would make it easier to repeal. and finally, the political implications of is it a tax, is it not a tax. not just for this election but going forward. >> i would gragree we have not heard the end, but i think folks are going to focus on the implementation. and the politics will be driven by people getting access to affordable, quality health care. those of us who are leading states and responsible for implements it have to focus on the implementation as opposed to trying to fight yesterday's battle. >> i'm going to rise above it as i usually do. the whole politics of this. >> what are you saying? will doesn't. >> this is the time we need to respect the highest court in the land. and we need to rise above it. our democracy was meant to be a process. and the checks and balances to ensure our freedoms.

yesterday was an example of that. and beyond that, i'm excited to read the rielle hunter book. >> you may borrow my book. i'd like it back. i marked it up. it's a page turner. >> all right. we're back in just a moment. see you on the other side. ? you ready? one, two, three. [ both ] ♪ emma, emma bo-bemma ♪ banana-fana-fo-femma ♪ fee-fi-fo-femma ♪ em-ma very good sweety, how do you feel? good. yeah? you did a really good job, okay? [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, well hello, welcome to hotels.com. summer road trip, huh? uhuh yep uch

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